Bailout alternatives

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I am hearing some say on TV that Americans who opposed the
bailout simply don’t understand complicated economic principles and don’t see
how crucial it is to act.  That seems condescending
to me, since as Obama has said, Americans have been feeling the economic crisis
on a day-to-day painfully real level long before this Wall Street Crisis.  I may not be an economist and know all the
fine points, but because I want to emphasize help to citizens who are losing their
homes more directly and make things fair to the embattled middle class does not
mean I’m clueless.  Although I think this
needs supplementation, I sure do like this Service Employees International
Union plan better than the one that was before Congress.  What do you think, forum contributors?  If we don't want the bailout that failed to pass, what DO we want?? Thank-you Bob F. for pointing us in this
direction. I sure do like the alternative of “massive investment in public
services and national health care, and regulatory reforms preventing
foreclosures and forcing banks to renegotiate the predatory terms of their bad
mortgages.” I feel that we need to start communicating with our congress-people when we get clear what we want as an alternative to the bailout we protested.  Michael Moore is apparently researching this and planning to send an e-mail about it today. I know that he's far better connected than I am and I will look forward to seeing what he comes up with. Here is the link to the Service Employees plan and an excerpt:

http://blogs.seiu.org/blogs/2008/09/26/take-a-deep-breath-our-economic-recovery-plan/

Tens of millions of Americans can be helped if we invest in
programs that will help revive our economy. We’re proposing a $350 billion
long-term investment in America’s families:

  1. A
    national health care plan. Estimated cost: $130 billion over two years.
  2. A
    plan for energy independence and green job creation. Estimated cost: $20
    billion over two years.
  3. Improved
    infrastructure. Estimated cost: $22 billion over two years.
  4. Tax
    reforms to correct a system that currently favors CEOs and business while
    contributing to a growing income divide. Estimated cost: $80 billion.
  5. Affordable
    education. Estimated cost: $100 billion over two years.

And there are some programs to help our economy that won’t
cost the government a dime:

  1. Relief
    for struggling homeowners - halting foreclosures so families can keep
    their homes. Estimated cost: $0.
  2. Reforms
    that ensure workers have real freedom to choose a voice at work by passing
    the Employee Free Choice Act. Estimated cost: $0.  
  3. Retirement security. Estimated cost: Negligible

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Dreamcatcher...your entire pitch seems to be that of...

the corporate drive to re-establish the old laws of THE RIGHT TO WORK FOR LESS and to deprive individual workers the right to organize so that the corporate masters have all the power and the worker, none.

Individual workers, unless organized, have no power to negotiate anything. You would do well to go back to the 1880s or so and follow the trends from that point forward. Corporations pay absolutely no attention to individual workers. They do pay attention, if they wish to stay in business, to organized labor.

Go study some labor history.

A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.

Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623

The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.

What plan for economic recovery do you support?

Thanks for your comment, grinch & I'm so sorry you had to wade through the formatting errors to reply! I didn't know that if I was just cut/pasting from word --as opposed to a webpage--I would have a mess like that! In any case, you persisted. I may be picking at words--but "pitch" is not a word I would apply to my post because that means to me that I'm trying to sell the reader on something. More than trying to push any certain plan for economic recovery (as I said, I think that one needs some work), I'm asking what members think is better. Where do we go from here now that the bailout before congress failed in the House? Lots of people protested the plan--what would their plan be if they could have it the way they want it? I'm just saying as an example, I prefer this one to what we had before Congress. What do you think grinch--what would be better than the one proposed in the House or did you support/prefer the one that the house failed to pass? So far as labor is concerned, you're right, others would be far more educated on that topic than I. Sounds like you are, for one. Have never belonged to a union and for many years worked independently as a professional in private practice. The labor aspect of this plan was not the draw for me, although I am assuming that the law they are advocating to give workers input is a way to organize the preferences of workers and give them input into business decisions that affect them. If that's the case, it would actually mitigate against the corporate masters having all the power. I would think that a union plan would make sure that is the case & this plan was proposed by a union. Corporate masters having all the power--so far as I can see--is why we are in this economic crisis to begin with and is not something I want to support in an economic bailout/recovery plan--in fact, a plan that is focused on power/support and recovery of everyday American citizens--particularly those whose homes are being foreclosed and upcoming retirees who will be affected by recent stock market losses & economic conditions--is my opinion of what is needed.

Mortgage Help

I am of the opinion that there are many alternatives to mortgage foreclosure, and rising fuel costs. One-the mortgages-most mortgages can be refinanced-if the banks do not want to take the loss of a bad mortgage-why not contemplate remortgaging properties at lower interest rates which would lead to lower mortgages. This way the money is still coming in-the losses that an abandoned property will cost the mortgage holder would be significantly more than lowering the interest rate. I realize it seems too simple and maybe I am missing something here-it would seem to me that this way-banks will have to tighten their belts like every one else-BUT-they will not have to close their doors permanently.

Fuel costs...that is a tough one-as we have such incredible access to mid eastern fuel now-we should be able to do this...Giving home owners incentives to switch fuel sources rather than giving them to the suppliers would not only make a great financial difference to the home owner-this includes landowners of rental units-it also puts the power of fuel consumption-supply and demand as the big four referred to it a few months ago-back into the hands of the consumer....If every home owner in America were given these incentives I am confident it would cost less than 700 billion dollars.

A thousand dollars would purchase an alternative fuel furnace-a coal and oil furnace; a propane furnace; update your existing furnace to make it more economical; a wood stove with blowers and the wood to fuel it for a least two months.

Now presented with every one deciding on an alternative fuel source for heat will very neatly force fuel companies to drop their prices and become accountable for their own debt. Walk when you can; use public transportation; carpool.

It is actually a pretty simple approach-affordable and democratic....If the citizens begin taking some of the responsibility for this mess-it will not be quite so easy for the politicians to "fix it" in a way that conveniences only them.

I liked the breakdown as presented above,but am not too sure about the necessity of national healthcare-affordable healthcare might be more suitable...since the introduction of MCO's-citizens are NOT getting the quality healthcare that they are entitled to. Doctors will get paid if you step into their office-how about a family plan that even the working poor could afford with a fifty dollar a month payment, and an equally reasonable prescription plan....Now if the insurer wants to be paid they will be sure to allow you to control your own health care-otherwise they will lose customers-they would have to be accountable for making the cheap guy-the med school drop out-be the specialist you MUST use, because now you are paying them for a service not your state or federal government. Bad doctors will be weeded out by patients, which will decrease malpractice suits in this country-another huge problem. Medical care is returned to the citizens' control as well.

The biggest problem in this country right now-is a lack of initiative on behalf of the citizens. In the end there are more of us than there are of them-we just have to remind them of that. As a result-we have to be willing to take the responsibility on as well.

We kept using fuel even at five dollars a gallon-which has raised our grocery prices, our heating-our basic life needs....We allowed the government to extend unemployment-instead of saying-we want jobs....Welfare rolls are getting larger which means our taxes are getting higher-again-we should be TELLING THEM WHERE WE WANT OUR TAXES TO GO-education, employment. In the long run-paying for someones six month training-enough to secure a job that will support your family-is a helluva lot cheaper than paying for someone's five years on welfare....

This is great

Miri, This is great--a  thoughtful position. Thanks for your ideas. I agree that it would be good to adapt the healthcare plank of the Service Employees plan a bit. I'm going to send an e-mail to my representative about this.  I hope everyone who contributes to the forum and doesn't want the plan to pass as is will do the same. I will include mine. If you don't have time to write one you can lift any or all of mine (except the part about my career) and use it.

Here is my e-mail:

Dear representative:

I was not one of the many people who contacted you the last time the financial bailout/recovery bill came before the House, but I am contacting you now requesting that you oppose the new version and urging a vote on an alternative.  Last time the bailout bill came before the House I did not protest it because I was deeply concerned about the state of the economy and I thought that some sort of legislative action would be better than doing nothing.

As time went on and I considered the bill longer, I changed my mind and decided that I felt the bill before the House was absolutely not the best thing for the country and NOT in my personal best interest. Please keep in mind that the American public do not think like Senators because enticing us with pork to trade something we want for something we don't want will not cause us to lose sight of the fact that the economy still needs repaired (without us picking up the tab) and cause us to loose sight of the fact that we are having trouble paying our bills. NOW the total cost of this bill is bigger and includes some pork that will benefit a vey small group of people--how is that an improvement?? In my case, if I had any sense, I would support the new Senate bill with the pork provision for greater mental health insurance coverage.  I have a doctorate in psychology and worked many years in the mental health care field, so I am sort of cutting off my nose to spite my face as I write this.  BUT a pig with lipstick is still a pig and this bill is still the same bill "porkified" (to coin a term).

I would have thought that after asking Americans to indebt their children to pay for wars in a couple locations, the Bush administration wouldn't have the nerve to ask us to drop the standard of living of future generations (as well as our own standard) even more. Its quite a big expense to build an infrastructure based upon alternative fuels, but in my opinion, this should be our biggest priority since the risk of playing fast and loose with Mother Nature is annihilation of the planet and our monetary system right along with it. Meanwhile, America drops further and further behind other countries educationally.  With this new bill, I don't see how taxpayers can have the collective funds for what I see as crucial domestic problems because we're saddled with paying for wars and economic destabilization that we didn't cause or have anything to do with.

This rush to action being pushed by President Bush is reminiscent of the rush to war in Afganistan/Iraq and we all saw how that turned out and what was revealed later. Just as happened with me as I considered & heard debate about the prior recovery bill, it is entirely possible that the same thing could happen (and to some small extent already has) on a national scale with the recovery legislation. Although I feel that this is different than the Iraq issue in that I feel there is indeed an urgent need to act, impetuousness is not in our interest. Cooler heads need to prevail--with all the talent in the House, I am sure you can come up with wonderful options much improved over what the Senate has sent you.  Please look at the Service Employees International Union proposal and the Rep. David Scott and Rep- Doggett (plus James K. Galbraith) bill as well as Rep. Pete deFazio (D-OR)'s "No Bailouts Plan".  Michael Moore has some suggestions for generating capital that I would like to see you consider. I fully understand that there is a need to act expediently and swiftly.  It isn't like this should take forever, since some very smart Americans have already done some usable prepatory footwork.

Goals of a financial recovery bill I would support: 

1.  DIRECT economic stimulation of those who need it the most and for those whose economic circumstances have been most vitally affected by the mortgage crisis and Wall Street losses--especially homeowners losing their primary residence and retirees in or near retirement who will need to take money out of funds dependent upon the stock market (for basic living expenses).  Public money should be used either to affect the economic recovery of the most people it can reach or the people who are in the most dire straits--whose economic crash/misfortune will in turn affect the whole--not a select group of the economically elite.  The elite do not need public money, since they have their own money.  The elite should be a resource used to get us out of this mess, although not the only resource. The most wealthy 400 Americans Michael Moore says own more than the bottom 150 million Americans combined could lend a (financial) hand and still live very, very well.

2.  DIRECT economic stimulation of the average American who has been hard-hit by escalating costs of living--especially necessities like fuel, food; medical care.  We could sure use some relief too.  We need the money to buy the products American companies produce and to grease the wheels of commerce in various ways.  That's why I would find attractive any plan that combines healing of the economy and mortgage crisis with ways to mitigate high costs of gas/petrol products for the average consumer. If possible, combining a plan that addresses the mortgage, energy, and health care cost crisis would be even more bang for the buck!

3.  Restoration of confidence in banks.  Please keep the expansion of the FDIC insurance in the bill! I DO think that inclusion is an improvement in that it aids small businesses and general consumer confidence.

4.  Stabilizes failing banks and consumers losing their primary residences by renegotiating (or even halting) foreclosures at a lower interest rate so that consumers can stay in their homes. I'd prefer renegotiating to halting since the banks would still be getting something and the homeowners would feel they were pulling their weight more by paying some amount.  Then for banks in need, give them loans--not bailouts.  Consumers could be paid back from interest on the loans.

5.  Punishes predatory financial practices from this point forward and protects against them.  I am not personally as interested in seeing those who got us into this mess face criminal penalties for what they have done as some may be.  I think the atmosphere must have had something in common with Nazi Germany in the respect that those in authority were legitimizing what was going on and everyone was doing the same sort of thing. Now that we know in no uncertain terms what problems these policies can cause, we need to go back to regulating them more stringently and all concerned will be on notice. 

Here are some economic repairs I would support.  Or some ways of generating cash to pay for economic correction/recovery that I would support:

1.  President Bush has been giving tax cuts to the wealthy so they should now be in an excellent position to help out the rest of us.  Michael Moore says that a 10% surcharge tax for 5 years on every couple that makes over a million dollars a year and every single taxpayer who makes over $500,000 a year would raise a total of $300 billion.  He says they would still be paying less income tax than when Carter was president.  Humm! Not a bad idea, but probably problematic if you want to be reelected. You'd probably also need to pass a new bill to reform how campaigns are run and reform campaign contributions--which needs done anyway. 

2.  Here are other Michael Moore suggested income generators I would support: 

A.  Like every other democracy, charge a .25% tax on every stock transaction.  He says this alone would raise more than $200 billion in a year.

B.  Because every stockholder is a patriotic American, if stockholders forgo receiving a dividend check for one quarter the money can go to the Treasury to pay for a bailout. 

C.  25% of major US corporations currently pay no federal income tax.  Federal corporate tax revenues currently amount to 1.7% of the GDP compared to 5% in the 1950's.  If we raise the corporate income tax back to the level of the 1950's, that gives us an extra $500 billion.  

3.  As opposed to the national healthcare plan in the Service Employees International Union plan, offer a health insurance plan to citizens at a ridicilously low monthly rate--like $30 a person per month--again there is still some financial responsibility on the part of the consumer.  If the low monthly amount is not affordable, provide the insurance free for those who can verify their inability to pay.

4. Generate new jobs building infrastructures that allow affordable conversion to  alternative fuels for the average consumer.  Provide grants (not requiring pay back) for consumers to make conversions in their homes, or to their vehicles.  And or/allow individuals to provide service for their country in exchange for alternative fuel conversions.  Also allow service in exchange for college education. Raise and enforce air and water quality standards.

5.  Tax reforms to correct a system that currently favors C.E.O.s and businesses while contributing to a growing income divide.  Estimated cost in Service Employees Union plan:  $80 billion.

6.  Affordable education.  Estimated cost in Service Employees proposal:  $100 billion over 2 years.

Thanks for your time and attention.

--signed,

consumer

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