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Oceans of Oil...
...don't exist here.
-The few Oil Ponds we do have, like in Alaska, should not be burnt, but kept stored (for free) in the ground for horrific National Security Emergences.
-Oil is a finite resource. The last of it should not be burnt at all, but turned into foam insulation, medical supplies, etc.
Making the last buck on these Ponds, for inbred Aristocrats, is not the work of men with balls nor those with brains. Engineers, Scientists, and non lard asses can do better.
SCREW OPEC
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In WWII, we built tanks and ships and planes; and our Manhattan Project beat the Nazi's to The Bomb. Nobody called it "socialism."
In this different kind of war, our main weapon should be kicking our "Addiction to Oil" (as "w" himself put it). Why do we keep financing the Mid-East terrorists by purchasing their fuel products at outrageous prices?
In the simplest and least expensive electric car, each wheel itself could be a motor, eliminating transmission and differential. Going downhill, 'regenerative braking' uses the motors as generators, recharging the battery. The only maintenance would be brush replacement, and the occasional wheel/motor bearing. Much to the consternation of auto manufacturers And dealers, who charge outrageous prices for replacement parts and service for these complex behemoth engines.
The 3 trillion (ultimate cost of w's war) would be better spent on augmenting the power grid to include more solar-steam-turbine, wind, hydro, and other clean energy sources.
And developing and building 75 million plug-in hybrids (which could be recharged overnight, during the off-peak demand period). This vehicle would get most of us to work or school, and about our daily tasks -- we'd normally have no need for a gas station. On extended trips, a small $200 gas-powered generator would maintain battery charge, at far less cost than the standard internal combustion engine.
Returning Iraqi War Vets could be put to work in re-tooled, reinvigorated American Auto Factories, and should be each given one such vehicle.
Oil in US
The fact is that there is very little oil in Alaska. Most of the US oil is still in California, Texas, Oklahoma, and off shore. And there's still quite a lot of it.
My boyfriend drills oil wells here in Ventura County,CA and believe me the oil companies are busting the workers butts trying to open up all the wells they closed down during the 70's when the price of oil dropped. The oil executives complained to congress about how they couldn't drill because of the environmental laws. That's just hogwash. They are drilling new wells as fast as they can. They can't get enough workers who are willing to work the 14 hour shifts 7 days a week at the shitty pay they offer and expose themselves to all the toxic chemicals and dangerous hazards involved in drilling. In fact, they opened up one well that was so productive they wanted to close it up because they couldn't figure out what to do with all the oil!!!!! Then, the oil companies turn around and sell it overseas for higher profits. The oil companies are their own worst enemy...but as long as they manage to keep the truth from the American public with Bush and Murdock type idiots in power, well I guess the American public will just continue to allow itself to get raped and pillaged...and of course as the gas price skyrockets, so does interest in alternative fuels which is long overdue.
Tests suggest huge oil field found
Chevron on Tuesday estimated the 300-square-mile region where its test well sits could hold between 3 billion and 15 billion barrels of oil and natural gas liquids. The U.S. consumes roughly 5.7 billion barrels of crude-oil in a year.
It is going to be a very long time I think before we can run a tank on alternative fuels. Wouldn't it be great if we stopped the war because we couldn't fuel it any more? But that won't happen as long as we control Iraq's oil.
If you aren't worried about your carbon foot print and the atmosphere we are poisoning for our children there is still oil under the oceans. It is just going to cost us a lot more even than it does now to get it into those barrels. The oil people stopped refining oil in this country because they make bigger profits doing it elswhere.
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis
"I'm just pissed off that not enough other people are pissed off."~Bill Maher
The technology is here.
The will and culture needed, are not.
The VW above is only a two seater and tops out at 75 mph.
.
.
.
But it gets 235 miles per gallon.
Have you read about these Jim?
Who killed my electric car?
This is the one I want though lol
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/223/index.html
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross." ~ Sinclair Lewis
"I'm just pissed off that not enough other people are pissed off."~Bill Maher
Most.
But not the Tesla.
Just remember that electricity is not a source of energy (unless you own the electric company). Some source of energy is used to produce it. That energy is then easily transported via wires to batteries in your electric car. Economies of scale may still make it cheaper than gasoline though.
The Tesla is sleek.
The Tesla
The Tesla is very sleek. It is without a doubt a very beautiful car. The outrageous price tag puts the car out of reach of the very people that need it the most, those of us that don't have $100,000.00 to spare on a car. Hurray for the rich. Screw the poor!
Jim, that's a damn impressive car.
Here's the website to Tesla Motors,
http://www.teslamotors.com/
--less than 2 cents/mile to run?
this will generate BIG interest, especially
now with gas coming up to $4.70 a gallon
in my area.
btw, I LOVE the fact that Nikolas Tesla is
FINALLY gaining some recognition.
Thomas Edison ripped off many of his ideas
and we all know it. Edison- not the hero
many think he is!
:-(
High Tech.
A lot of that mileage comes from expensive high tech going into making the car light. Not sure if economy of scale will allow a reasonable price yet.
The Tesla is very shiny ;)
It may be genetic, but I love the quiet of an electric car. Others love the roar of internal combustion.
Jim, you might check and see if you can find the ancestor of...
the VW you pictured.
The design comes from the 1958/59 three wheeled Messerschmidt. Had the fighter canopy that opened from one side to get in...and the passengers, instead of being side by side, were tandem as in piper cubs and bicycles.
Also had fenders rather than the sleek sides in the one you show. But, they were over the wheels and not attached to the body(as I remember).
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
I'll have to dig a bit...
...for its lineage. Interesting observation.
It may have also been a parallel occurrence: different sets of engineers solving for good aerodynamics. On the other hand, how could you not study old planes for a first best guess at descent aerodynamics?
I still find it hard to believe that my civilization built the mechanical movie projector that I have (my Dad's). INSANELY beautiful. Insanely complicated. Insanely adorned. AND CHEAP, if I recall, so many decades ago! Have we lost something these days, or are we simply stretched thin making so many MORE products (mostly electronics)?
The nice thing about good design is that it's relatively timeless. Works well regardless of the power plant in many cases.
By the way...
...the nice thing about good design is that it makes ANY energy source more reasonable. Even smaller oil deposits in the U.S.A.
The "giant" find above, while great, only fuels us for 6 months to 3 years.
We should be using it to build infrastructure for century long energy sources.
VW
A more likely candidate for sales in the U.S.A. is a VW turbo diesel hybrid Rabbit that gets 83 mpg.
Lady Di
Submarine USS Wahoo ss238
Brazil seems to be getting along using alternative fuels,
its the oil companies, and Cheney, with his secret energy files that want to keep the United States hostage, and not
invest in those other types.
Hey maybe one day they will put a huge oil rig off the coast of Sarasota!!!!!!!!.....hehehe
There is only one solution!
Common sense. Saving energy where ever we can! Going alternative where ever feasible and possible. But we should no longer use oil and gas - like here in Hawaii - to generate electricity.
The technology for cars, heating and power generation without using oil is well known and we must start to use it now and stop making excuses. Are we that stupid that we will one day wake up and can't do anything?
I think we the people should know better. We also should send a clear message to car producers by not buying any of their guzzlers. What for anyway? US is a speed limited country maximum 75 miles/hours are allowed in some states and for that we don't need 300 horse powers of V8, V8 engines.
Nix On More OIL, Alternative Fuels
-----------------------------
Increasing the domestic supply of oil will only encourage the manufacture and purchase of more of these foul Nineteenth Century internal combustion behemoths, and postpone the developement of zero-emissions electric vehicles. Ethanol, and other biofuels rob crops and land from food production, resulting in scarcity, as witness the ever increasing cost of eating.
Those "men" who are still addicted to the roar of their mighty engines need to get a life and find less wasteful (and annoying) ways to compensate for their inadequacies and low self-esteem.
Electric Cars
Most of the electric cars on the market have very, very short ranges, crawl along the ground at bicycle speeds and have extremely small cargo capacity. Coupled with very high price tags, these deficiencies do not hold much attraction for me. I am forced to commute 48 miles one way, to school three times a week, nine and half months out of the year. I already have to get up at 5:30 AM, so I can drive for over an hour to get to school by 9:00 AM. Living closer to college would be ideal for me, but then my wife would just have to commute in the other direction to work. I want an electric car! They could be a lot of fun, as well as being good for the environment. They've got to be affordable, go faster and farther, first.
links?
Could you give a few references as to which electrics you have looked at?
An electric car can go as fast and far as you like (but with a big price tag).
There are also some ALTERNATIVE electric vehicles for folks who already live pretty nicely with bicycles. Only those come close to what you are describing. Perhaps that is what you are referencing?
You can also retrofit vehicles yourself, like the VW Rabbit. I highly recommend that even armchair googlers do just that, as it's very instructive as to what the practical problems are with conventional thinking.
Why go electric at all though? The VW above goes 235 miles on 1 gallon of diesel! It has two drawbacks: price and upper speed of 75 mph. I only mention this because the biggest advance needed right now is a cultural one: Can we as a Nation change? Can we accept that a two seater -front and aft- might actually fill a reasonable niche amongst some of our population? (Knowing full well it will not meet everyone's needs).
Some drawbacks to an electric car...
problems with heating/defrosting and air conditioning. Some sort of gas/oil fired heaters will be required for cold climates and certainly air condidtion is mandatory in the hotter areas of the country.
The electricity must be produced somewhere. Where is that somewhere? Power plants powered by anything but clean nuclear energy will be massive polluters--particularly the coal-fired plants. Even so-called clean coal is very dirty.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
IT'S A HUGE QUESTION.
I keep bringing it up as well: Where is the electricity coming from ?
Same thing with Hydrogen: Where is the Hydrogen coming from?
(Nobody is allowed to say water! The hydrogen in water is bound to Oxygen. To break those bonds you need to put energy in. Which you will get back when you recombine them by burning hydrogen in your car. It's a zero sum game. Well almost, a little loss is inevitable).
Some 20-25 years ago, a full feature article...
was published in Mechanic's Illustrated showing exactly how to convert a VW bug to an all electric vehicle.
The conversion used conventional batteries and they could be charged overnight--OR--you could drive across country using the on-board Briggs and Stratton 5HP engine to drive a set of alternators which produced sufficient current to run the vehicle non-stop on the long trips.
At that time, the conversion cost about $5000 to do, mostly the cost of the motors, the charging engine, and the batteries.
Using that conversion format today would certainly be no more expensive and this conversion would not cost the 20K/30K for a current hybrid.
The existing fuel tank in the Beatle would serve both the Briggs & Stratton engine and a small gas-fired heater currently available as an off the shelf item.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
grinch
At 10 cent per kwatt hour for electric (adjust this for your local) it would cost you $6 for the same energy in electricity as in ONE GALLON of GAS. So it would be cheaper to burn gas for heat than use electric heat. HOWEVER, in converting gas to motion, versus electricity to motion, there is about a 3 to 1 advantage -rough estimate- in favor of electricity. So electric costs about $2 and gas presently $4.50.
Home conversions like the one you mentioned are getting interesting again!
I was tempted with an old VW Rabbit but with gas at less than $1 a gallon (under Democratic rule;) it seemed silly.
Jim, the successes of our country are due to two...
enormous factions: the hard scientists and the backyard tinkerers.
It is a time for the tinkerers to flourish. The ability to take something off the shelf, so to speak, and put it to work in a totally different manner.
The dream of ethanol is just that--a dream. It takes roughly 5/8 gallon of 'real' fuel to produce one gallon of this underpowered stuff. This is fine for Brazil and the other worldwide sugar producers. Price of sugar continues to drop and the material is available for more productive purposes. To take real foodstuffs and turn that into a bio-fuel is insane. People still have to eat...unless we all plan to starve to death in our cars at some point in the near future.
But, the dreamers and the tinkerers along with the best of the scientific minds can be depended upon to make some breakthroughs. Maybe not what we have or had, but something new and different under the sun.
I just hope the breakthrough comes in time.
A mind once expanded can never return to its original dimensions.
Anne Hathaway: 1556-1623
The greatest derangement of the mind is to believe in something because one wishes it to be so.
Oops: The record is OVER 10,000 miles per gallon.
Link: http://www.wind-works.org/coopwind/10000milespergallonofgasoline.html
And here is a multi thousand mile per gallon vehicle:
And a youtube about such vehicles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuxObYQehYM
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Of course they are only for the young at heart, but it shows what is possible. (Part of the success has to do with the s-l-o-w speeds. Power goes up as the cube of velocity. The energy for a trip goes up by the square of velocity. So if instead of going 60 miles an hour you only go 10 then you use 36 times less energy to do it -assuming rolling resistance isn't too nasty).
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I have to say, that as silly as all this looks, I have spent times in my life only traveling the earth slowly, and it ain't bad. It's not for everyone, or for every season of life, but it ain't bad at all. I absolutely love moving through pockets of distinct air: moister, heavier, fresher, filled with floral scents, etc.
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The "tinkerers" above are High School Students.
Where is the electricity coming from?
---------------------------------
Waste heat from the electric motors, combined with a small gas heater would, of course, be needed for comfort in cold weather. The small on-board engine, (running at constant speed) also produces heat, and could power the a/c compressor on days when opening the car windows won't help.
As you may know, the biggest demand for electric power occurs during the hottest days of summer, when everyone's a/c is running full bore. During the cooler evenings, this same generating capacity isn't needed for cooling homes, and would be available for overnight charging of electric vehicles.
Nuclear power is "clean" only so long as you ignore the problem of what to do with the radioactive waste whose half-life is measured in billions of years. Even with constant vigilance against accidents and terrorist acts, Murphy's Law has yet to be struck down -- sooner or later there will be a catastrophy of Biblic proportion.
As for future electric power, the sun (which no corporation can claim ownership of) provides about 1kW per square yard. There are some very efficient solar steam turbine plants now operating, and others under construction. Excess heat is stored, for use at night, or during cloudy days.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22steam+turbine+sola...
Full Calculation
I highly recommend that we do the full calculation.
There are references for the number of hours of sunlight per month in various locals around the USA. This takes into account CLOUDS.
With this info it's easy to calculate the total AVAILABLE solar power in a particular local. This is often an order of magnitude LESS than saying 16 hours of sun times 1kW PER SQUARE YARD
Let's crudely estimate (in non dessert/sunny states e.g. Colorado) for one square meter of collector:
-1kw x 4 hours of sun per day on average = 4kW-hours of energy per day.
-Now electricity costs about 10 cents per kw-hour so that saves us 40 cents per day on power IF our collector was 100% efficient. In reality lets guess at ~70% efficieny in converting solar to steam and then ~70% efficient in transporting that steam to a turbine to create electricity. Now 70% times 70% yields ~50% overall efficiency so it actually saves us 20 cents per day. In a year that saves us 20 cents times 365 days = $73.
So with the crude guesses up there, IF you can build and manage a facility that costs less than 73$ per year per square meter of collector, then you could sell cheaper than many electric companies.
I can tell you this, I can't make a one square meter collector in my local and break even! In 20 years I would save 20 X $73 = $1460 on electricity but my original outlay would be more than that to say nothing of maintenance or labor. And I would need to have materials mined (more energy) to create that collector.
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The above is crude.
It is not meant to dissuade.
It is not meant to let big Corps off the hook when they can obviously bring Economies of scale to bear on the problem.
It is instructive however and it also points a little inward as we throw stones outward.
-----------
It's Nation building helpful to work through the calculations oneself.
(And yes, my infinite guesses on efficiencies are just that. Generally one might start by assuming somewhere between 0 and 100% efficiency -therefore 50%, but a next guess would be to assume up or down on that estimate: 25% or 75%. The goal is to discover what universe one is in. If the number came out to saving 1 penny a year then that would be instructive regardless of the guesses. If the number came out to $10,000 a year that too would be instructive regardless of the guesses. As it is I think no fiddling with the number will make solar in many States a no brainer. UNLESS of course we change our end usage: eg. fore to aft 2 person cars, Constant Velocity Bicycles, Elegant Mass Transit, etc.
PRICE of OIL
-----------------------
The point of "clean energy" is not necessarily any cost savings over conventional power plants, but the reduction of emissions conducive to Global Warming (and the resultant Climate Change we are now experiencing).
But, as the cost of crude soars ever higher; a point is reached, where even electric cars whose batteries are charged by "clean" power plants will be cheaper to operate than the current internal-combustion models.
And direct insolation, like through south-facing windows, or solar home (and water) heating panels is 100% efficient, and not as costly as the more complex systems.
Costs.
I agree with the generalities.
I am simply imploring folks to internalize these matters. There is blame to go "out there". There is also work that needs to be done internally.
------
So we touched a bit on a solution right NOW: A 235 mile per gallon car for two with a top speed of 75 mph and LESS pollution than 99% of the cars out there. I herar it's not good enough.
Ok how about this then: building codes throughout most of the USA which REQUIRE as a matter of National Security that the majority of windows in new construction go on the SOUTH SIDE. I bet many will not be able to swallow that one either. Tax incentives then? Oops, lost the Right Wing.
I think you get my point. WE must stretch as we demand others to stretch.
Sure if we assume somebody will someday come up with a benign energy solution that MATCHES the ease with which we've extracted energy before -via oceans of oil- then we don't have to change anything ourselves.
My life's experience says that those oceans of oil may NOT be matched. I also don't see the harm in stretching.
Why go electric at all though?
-------------------------
What electic cars have I looked at? Right now, they're all really too expensive, and I don't need to go zero-to-60 in 4 seconds like the Tesla. I like the Volt, but it won't hit the market for another few years. And, yes, a top speed of 75 MPH is too slow for some of us. Hence, the need for U.S. spending those trillions of dollars, not on conventional weapons of war in Iraq, but on R&D of improved, simpler, and less costly electric vehicles that will eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
"The VW above goes 235 miles on 1 gallon of diesel!"
The first three letters of which spells "DIE." Diesel emissions used to be 20 times as cancerous as gasoline. Now it's only 10 times as toxic. Some improvement.
And you still have a big and complex engine, with its fuel, cooling, exhaust, emission control, (etc.) systems to keep in repair.
With an electric motor for each wheel, maintenance is much simpler and economical. No need for transmission or differential. A small 'lawn mower' type engine to power the charging generator would cost
about $200 to replace, v.s. thousands spent on ring jobs, head gasket replacement, and a host of other maintenance needed to keep a behemoth internal-combustion engine running.
It was almost 40 years ago that we put Americans on the moon. Surely we can bring our addiction to foreign oil to a screeching halt, and begin to run our vehicles on clean energy.
Some points.
Diesel was originally designed to run on peanut oil.
There is diesel and there is diesel. I've seen German cars whose emissions are 1/100th the legal limit!
It's not a big complex engine by the way:
-If I remember correctly it is a 15 horsepower Diesel!
-It is infinitely simpler than electric engines. INFINITELY.
I think you are thinking of the simplest of electric motors which are a thing of simplistic beauty. I could not agree more. In order to gain all the non essential luxuries that you've become accustomed to, like top speed, more had to be done: Brushless motors with optical feedback and computer controls, etc.
Yet, perhaps as you, I am genetically pulled toward electric and away from internal combustion. They are no longer simple however and one has to replace rather than repair with the mass of electronics needed.
As to your lawn mower engine I'm not sure what you are talking about? That puts out orders of magnitude more pollution than the VW described. It also consumes MORE gas than a conventional engine for work performed.
I think you may be thinking of how one might retrofit a car to electric WITHOUT concerns about top speed, fuel efficiency, etc. That one could do decades ago (first cars where electric), and presently.
The Tesla gives you the top speed. Once you've started giving folks the luxuries the price is already up there. At that point you can't give them a card board box for a body to save 5000 bucks. Also, you start pointing toward other stuff that came along BECAUSE you worked on top speed: Things like acceleration.
We need a cultural change as well as throwing stones at industry.
Yes, we need another Manhattan Project
------------------------------------------------------
Fifteen horsepower Diesel?
What sort of acceleration do you get with that? As to complexity, you still have cylinders, valves, timing, emission control etc. -- lots of moving parts, and expensive repairs.
Google the EV-1. Plenty of folks were more than satisfied with its top speed, and range, before GM confiscated and destroyed them all. Low maintenance means fewer repairs, and less profit on parts and labor.
The reference to "lawn mower engine" was strictly for size. You can buy low-emission "generator sets" for a couple hundred. The advantage of a plug-in hybrid is that the reserve power (needed for going uphill and passing) is stored in a massive battery, instead of a big, inefficient, and complex internal-combustion engine.
Like I said, we need another Manhattan Project, to address any proplems wiht present technology.
But many of us would be happy with a car whose each wheel is a motor. No transmission, no differential. In the unlikely event that three motors fail, you'd still roll.
Forget the luxury of complex electronic control, and sophisticated motors (that make for a higher-price vehicle). A simple on-off speed-sensing electrical contact is all you'd need to maintain speed in a simple "Voltswagon" -- carbon brushes conduct just as well as the more elaborate commutative arrangements.
For the everyday commute to work, school, or shopping, 75MPH, and two seats is plenty for most of us.
Caluclations help.
-You need sophistication if you want certain niceties like range. Brushes eat power. (I also assume you mean hub motors WITHOUT gears for simplicity sake. Gotta add some electrical engineering to take their place). A simple retrofit of a VW Rabbit to electric will give you a local vehicle that is simple, BUT without the niceties. Work through the calculations and see how good a vehicle it is. It is NOTHING like the diesel VW mentioned before however. A slow poke pig with no range by comparison.
The other reason I pointed out that vehicle was that the power plant could be changed quite easily to a battery with electric motor, for less range but still a pretty spiffy car. The main reason it's cool is that it reduces frontal area by having a simple fore/aft arrangement of occupants and is extraordinarily light, saving on rolling resistance. Both require a cultural change for acceptance: can enough folks deal with 2 seats? Front and aft seats? The ensuing fights over getting overly heavy vehicles off the road which will KILL the lightweights in accidents. Etc.
Or you could swap the diesel with a bio diesel engine and run it off waste restaurant cooking oil. The exhaust smells like French fries though.
-Electric Hub wheels are great. Love them. Great for all wheel drive in snow/off road. Former Democratic Presidential Nominee Wesley Clark was the CEO of a corporation that is bringing them to market. So too for bicycles. He stepped down to pursue the nomination.
Cheap v.s. "sophisticated"
---------------------------------------------
You can add all kinds of 'sophistication' to an electric motor to squeeze a few extra miles of range (and more profit for the manufacturer). But, it makes more economic sense to have four conventional motors, and a cheap on-board gas engine to give you infinite range (when you actually need it).
If brushes eat that much power, simply increase their cross-sectional area. (Remember, there are four motors sharing the load). If I'm not mistaken, you need conventional commutation for regenerative braking (which, instead of dissapating it as heat, uses the excess energy to recharge the battery).
Railroad locomotives have been hybrid for almost 60 years, now. "Gearshift" is accomplished electrically with relays.
The lightweights may be more vulnerable in a crash. But, owing to their nimbleness (coupled with skillful driving), are much less likely to be involved in an accident in the first place.
How much does this VW diesel sell for?
Please. I hate the smell of diesel -- and french fries -- with a passion. I would never buy one. If one were given to me, I would sell it.
The advantage of a plug-in hybrid with each wheel a motor (besides the operating ecponomy), is greatly reduced maintenance cost (no complex, heavy, and expensive engine; no transmission, or differential), and never having to visit a gas station again (except when on an extended trip).
I believe present technology makes such an economical and simple plug-in hybrid practical. If I'm wrong, then we need another Manhattan Project to make it happen.
Torque.
Without electronics and a sophisticated motor, a simple motor tops out at a FIXED speed (i.e. RPM).
Let's say you build your simple motor so that it tops out at the speed you desire to be THE top speed. THEN it is incredibly inefficient at lower speeds (RPM). Since it is directly attached to each wheel WITHOUT gears (as per your desire for simplicity) then you can't switch gears to allow the motor to spin in its efficient RPM range.
Take a simple motor, attach it to a wheel, add a thousand pound load, measure voltage and amperage as you apply power and you will see all of the problems above as well as far more.
One can engineer around the above. It's been done. I mentioned the one company that has already done it. There are others.
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Let's be clear, nerds have already done the work:
-If you're willing to lie down while you drive you can use the record breaking 2300 mile per gallon vehicle (yes that is thousands of miles per gallon). I can build you one if you like.
-If you're willing to sit fore to aft in a real car (ie with defrosters, heat, etc.) then a couple hundred miles per gallon (or equivalent in battery juice) already exists.
-Heck the old VW Passat Wagons got over 40 miles per gallon and had more interior room than most vehicles.
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As far as diesel vs gas you are remembering back quite a few years. Peanut oil is less noxious than gasoline.
If electric is what you want they can always burn coal/gas/diesel at the power plant to produce it. For a great deal more money they can use solar or in some locals for less money solar and wind.
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I'm not sure how to help you with your desire for simplicity AND niceties.
You can build a simple retrofit right now. Its electric. You plug it in at your house. You pay the electric bill or buy solar cells (more expensive) to get your electricity. Its simple. Your engine is replaced with an electric motor and batteries. Simple. You could do it. Done.
What you end up with will not satisfy your desire for some niceties however.
Hub motors will satisfy along with more sophisticated battery technology but it costs.
Mass production will help, but there is no Law of the Universe that says that if our oceans of oil dry up, we will be able to proceed as if that resource never really mattered. It's a real loss.
We can surely navigate into the future, but it will require a cultural change as well.
I'm also certainly with you as far as having our government get involved to bring costs down and to do it NOW.
POWER.
Moving your body through air requires a certain amount of power.
and
Finally:
As you see, those are HUGE effects.
There is no law of the universe that says that when a planet runs out of oceans of hydrocarbons one must be able to create the very same standard of living via technology.
There are certain truths that remain true no matter what future technology we develop. I mention just a few above. I hope we can all encourage a mixed bag of solutions. One of them, I think, must be somewhat oddball vehicles for some: enthusiasts, the young and able, etc.
We'll need a cultural change if those odd vehicles are to be accepted onto our roadways.
I believe that we should put
I believe that we should put more funds into researching the use of flying brooms. My wife could help with the design...;-)
I'm...
...tellin.
I've been telling her for
I've been telling her for years, but she still can't turn me into a prince. All she has is this pet frog who takes out the trash every Tuesday...;-)
Don't mention...
...trash! You're gonna start something.
I completely forgot yesterday.
Former Democratic Nominee General Wesley Clark's old company:
The link below sends one to the page describing a bit about their hub motors:
http://www.wavecrestlabs.com/automotive-products-wheelmotor.php
Correction and more:
The VW way above uses a tiny 8.5 horsepower diesel engine.
(Remember too that when you burn 1/10 th the fuel you have the possibility of producing only 1/10 the pollution).
Still, that vehicle would cost $25,000 and had other issues like noise, so VW scrapped it.
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The VW Lupo is closer to what might penetrate markets here:
-78 miles per gallon.
-top speed 102 mph.
-simple diesel (sorry;)
It was discontinued in 2005 but I hear rumors it will be back in another few years (maybe sooner). I almost went to Canada to get one a year or two ago.
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By the way, diesel engines today can provide the power for 75 mpg cars AND produce LESS pollution than gasoline/electric hybrids.
Is that all our geniuses can come up with?
Drill oil in our pristine lands and our back yards or inundate our lands with nuclear reactors. Is that the best we can do? I thought we were leaders of the free world, the most advanced nation on the planet. We have all these space crafts on these other planets or speeding through the universe, and telescopes that see farther than we ever dreamed and technology that practically is glued to our ears to talk to each other etc etc,. And all we got in a crisis (that we new was coming by the way) is a couple of warn ideas short term at that, that keep us going down a dark road of environmental and health problems just because the money is good (but only for the few) and we are scared of change. The people who control these industries are very intertwined with our government and they will only change when whatever next thing to replace oil or nuclear power is in their control. They could care less about the masses or the burden being placed on us. The fact is there are many technologies out there that have been around for a while that could indeed help us bridge the gap between change but they are usually either suppresed, shelved, or made to be so expensive that they are not redily available to us. Money and politics the root of all problems is still the root of all problems and a closed door to change. Now money in itself or politics in itself is not evil but put the two together and change hides away. We must crash down these closed doors with demands for better of ourselves and our representatives. And if companies refuse to work toward better safer products we can react by not purchasing their products. There are plenty of companies that are beginning to embrace environmentaly and healthy choices of the products they create that we can switch to. That can speak volumes on our behalf.
Oceans of Oil have spoiled us.
What about the royal "WE"?
-The technology is here.
-It is more expensive than Oil. (IT SHOULD BE. Oceans of oil have spoiled us. To think the same standard of living can always be achieved no matter what resource is depleted is insanity).
-You buy it or build it TODAY. (THERE IS NO HOLY GRAIL THAT WILL EVER COMPETE WITH OCEANS OF OIL).
-You can also demand that the economy of scale be brought to bear on lowering prices. (NOT THROUGH TECHNOLOGY. That is over).
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I'm not sure what folks want:
NOTE: if you don't want to store the sun in organic batteries such as wood, peanuts, coal, oil, corn, etc. then store it in chemical batteries such as Lead Acid, NiCad, NiMh, etc. Use Solar cells to charge it (they cost $5 per Watt and have for decades). Or use a windmill. About a grand for a 100 watts IF your local has wind (real wind). Or make your own windplant and save a few hundred bucks for a crappier do it yourself, but fun, project.
OR
Use organic batteries such as lentils, barley, whey, vegetables, etc. by EATING them, then get on a stationary bicycle (out of traffic at home) and pedal a generator to charge chemical batteries. You put out about 1/4 Horsepower so this will take some time.
AND PLEASE NOTE:
It does not matter if a high mileage vehicle runs of gasoline, diesel, or ARSENIC. The advances are in aerodynamics, rolling resistance, regenerative breaking, etc. AND Culture (e.g. fore to aft seating, lower top speeds, etc.).
The actual power plant can be swapped to whatever the heck you want. You want to get rid of the clean burning diesel that costs nothing compared to solar cells/batteries, fine. You simply pay that cost plus reduced range penalty. With pressure to industry and government THOSE prices and ranges will come down.
Maybe I'm doing a shitty job of explaining this, but there is a forest for the trees here. We have already succeeded across many fronts. We need specific action not general anger and broad finger pointing.
Shelved Technology?
You said:
I disagree that "many" are overtly suppressed.
Shelved yes but can you say why?
Made Expensive? Can you give examples.
Der Diesel, etc.
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Jim, I thank you for the images and links, especially the motor/wheels. To think, a fellow Arkansan and Democrat had his hands in it for a time.
I grew up near a RR yard, and still remember the "ker-chunk" of those big contactors (relays) as the switch engines "shifted gears" -- I suspect that they controlled field-winding configuration, i.e., more poles for high-torque/low speed, and progressively fewer as speed increased. Those diesel-electric locomotives could get a whole passenger train moving with a top speed approaching 100MPH, and this was before high-current transistor technology.
I still get a kick out of watching the old "Star Trek" episodes, hearing the clicking relays in the Enterprise's computer. But I digress.
While today's solid-state technology is considered to be very reliable; in today's world, with all the nuclear material unaccounted for, I would have more confidence in mechanical contacts -- brushes and relays -- unless the electronics could be economically hardened against the threat of EMP.
Back in the 70's "Mother Earth News" magazine had an article on replacing a pick-up's gas engine with a surplus jetengine starter motor. Powered by a bank of deep-cycle lead-acid batteries, and a small constant-speed gas-powered generator back in the bed.
You are correct, today's VW's are "not your father's diesel." I had a few Rabbits, but they all ran on gas. I had a timing belt break on me, once, and replaced it,no sweat. If it had been "der diesel," every one of the valves would have been toast (owing to the necessary clearance required for the required compression). So maybe I'm just prejudiced, but considering the smell, poor acceleration, and now the cost, diesel has always been an anathema.
I confess, I have always been a "conspiracy theorist" when it comes to big corporations maximizing their profits through planned obselesence. A case in point -- I have a "Craftsman" electric mower, and would never go back to the noxious gas models. But, at the top of the DC motor, instead of a ball-bearing, they "engineered" it with a bushing, which overheated, melting the plastic housing, shifting the armature axis, which them chipped a portion of the powdered iron permenant magnet field. Fortunately, I had saved the plastic housing from a previous motor (which had suffered a similar fate). I was lucky to have found a suitable ball-bearing, and with some carving out with a pocket knife, kludged it in. So I now have a reliable mower, that doesn't deafen me, or make me sick with its fumes.
To best break our addiction to foreign oil, we need a low-cost, reliable, plug-in hybrid. Given the auto-makers' proclivity toward screwing their customers to increase their profit-margin, national security concerns justify a new Manhattan Project toward this end. I look forward to the day, when we'll no longer need to regularly gas-up, sending our dollars to OPEC, and ultimately to terrorists.
Thanks for the post Pirad9
Scattered thoughts:
Some interesting stuff in your post.
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You can catch ALL the old Star Treks FOR FREE at www.veoh.com AND you don't have to sign up or anything. (You have to endure a few very short commercials but LESS than ordinary TV). They also have tons of other old TV shows for free. I've been loving it in one corner of my screen as I do other work.
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My main thrust I suppose is that the power plant is almost an after thought. Aerodynamics, regenerative breaking, rolling resistance, etc are what we have to get use to. We have already broken all barriers there. It just makes for funny vehicles that we have to open ourselves up to. OLD FASHION TRAINS: Oddly enough old tech solved many of these problems a century ago. Use STEEL WHEELS on a STEEL TRACK to lower rolling resistance to a minimum. Place one car fore to aft with another to wildly reduce aerodynamic resistance compared to separating all the "cars" and sending them willy nilly across the nation as TRUCKS. (Then again, folks would have to get use to not having the distribution network we now have. Still, I for one am happy to deal with internet sales for the majority of purchases instead of having us build (and resupply) strip malls! It would call for a cultural change for most folks however).
By the way, I'm in love -read drool- over SIMPLE and Hub Motors so its the pot calling the kettle black when I'm touting some points ;) I've just spent a lot of time in the realization that I can either convert an old VW Rabbit with lesser specs or deal with complexities. (By the way a friend gave me his rusted out Rabbit decades ago with an Audi engine. No back seat as well. It was so light and powerful that it out accelerated many muscle cars and still got better gas mileage than most vehicles on the road! I must admit I turned a few heads at stop lights. Got quite a few smiles from the muscle heads as well. Even beat out folks with over a thousand pounds of Ash Timbers in the back).
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You may be interested in Rails to Trails.
http://www.railtrails.org/index.html
They attempt to secure abandoned railway corridors when rail lines go out of service. Think about how difficult it is to buy up a corridor of land that cuts across many municipalities! They then convert them to horse, bike, hiking, etc trails.
If they ever piece together one across the country I'll be hitting many times over. (Crossed once by bicycle and I can deal with traffic but with kids now it would be nice to have a clean run without the noise or worry).
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Talk about mowers: I'm about to indulge in a 12 volt tiny rechargeable electric chain saw. I could not agree more about noise and fumes. Having to use a gas chain saw for a thousand tiny limbs on my property has caused my wallet to open. Yeah, it will not replace the other but...
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You might like this store:
http://www.realgoods.com/
-They are overpriced.
-They sell a bunch of fluffy crap along with the good stuff.
-They absorbed a far better online store a few years ago.
Ok, now that I got that out of my system. They do offer a range of products that can at least orient one what is available in wind, solar, etc.
The Niceties
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My Dad drove five miles to school, and back every day; in a cart pulled by actual horsepower. Once he got that behind him, the autmobile itself (even it its most spartan form) was considered a 'nicety' for sure.
It would be nice not to depend on foreign oil.
Biodiesel from waste cooking grease?
Ah, "Living off the fat of the land."
I love it.
Maybe I could make a McDeal with a fast food chain or two. In return for taking that putrid stuff off their greasy hands, I could get discount coupons for their wares. (Which I would promptly try to sell on e-Bay.)
I guess you could call it "Carbo-credits."
But back to the niceties.
My car thinks I'm an idiot.
It thinks than whenever I use the remote to lock it;
that I want its parking lights to flash --
indicating to every would-be thief up and down the block,
that I will be away from my car for a time. Duh.
Yes, I like the feature where my '05 Ford Focus's factory CD player's volume can be programmed to automatically increase (by incremental pre-set values), as car speed (and ambient noise) increases. But I freaking hate having go through a freaking menu every time I freaking need to freaking adjust the freaking bass and freaking treble.
Niceties, schmiceties.
Guess I should concentrate my efforts on inventing some sort of a pick-up coil, that could steal power from the overhead electric wires, to run my car as I drive along the road. The power companies would likely then do the sensible thing; bury their cables, and install their sub-stations underground. We'd have fewer outages due to wind, lightning, vehicle accidents, solar magnetic storms, and errant squirrels, owing to their present exposed vulnerability. And, did I mention acts of terror? We'd also get better scenery -- the ultimate "nicety."
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go out and check my Focus; to be sure it turned off its dome light, which, as usual, came on as I locked its doors for the night. I guess it just misses me.
We have had the the technology for decades.
The reason for the high cost of gasoline is the failure of our government to act in a responsible manner. The "Energy-Independence and Security-Act of 2007" requires a 35-mpg standard by 2020. Whoop de do!!! Evidently none of the people who created and signed this act did any research on available technology. To require 35-mpg is ridiculous considering the achievements of Shell Oil with modified automobiles; 49.73-mpg around 1939; 149.95-mpg with a 1947 Studebaker in 1949; 244.35-mpg with a 1959 Fiat 600 in 1968; 376.59-mpg with a 1959 Opel in 1973. If you lived in Europe, during 1983, you could purchase a 72-mpg diesel or 65.7-mpg gas fueled Peugeot. Toyota is complaining they can’t meet the mpg standard. Evidently some people at Toyota didn’t get the memo about the 104-mpg diesel sold in Europe during 2002. Do you wonder why these automobiles were not available in the USA? In 2006 every congressional member of the energy committees was informed of this technology, they did nothing. Ask your members of congress for an explanation why these automobiles were not sold here, I did, they don’t respond.
A Philippine inventor has fueled engines with the components of water for more than 30-years, the Japanese have a water fueled mini-van on the street. This is not new technology, more than 200-years ago one of the attempts to make a self-powered vehicle was fueled with the components of water. The technology is not only applicable to automobiles, any device fueled with "fossil" oil can be fueled with water. In January 2007, Dominion Energy sent a "doom and gloom’ letter to customers, I responded with information about commercially available water fueled electricity generators. Dominion did not respond, consider this when paying your electric bill.
You hear, and read, of the presidential candidates expounding about our reliance on foreign oil. Yet, every candidate for president was offered a free computer disk with videos of six automobiles fueled with water, none wanted the disk. You are told there is an oil shortage. A chairman of Exxon/mobile doesn’t think so nor does the governor of Alaska. The governor says there is a 200-year oil supply for the USA in that state. Do a search for "Lindsey Williams" and learn the truth about the oil in Alaska
It is apparent there is an effort by our government, and major media, to keep the citizens in the dark concerning achieved energy technology. We must make all politicians, including wannabes, address the energy issue with truth and solutions, not rhetoric. DO SOMETHING don’t whine about the cost of gasoline. Demand that our employees earn their salary by action, if not, replace them.
Water as fuel?
I agree with your early points. I would add however that part of the reason those cars don't show up on our shores is because WE don't want them. They are smaller, lighter, etc. Qualities that too great a percentage of the American market do not appreciate. That is why I have dedicated a portion of this thread to asking for cultural change.
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Using the components of Water as fuel is trivial. Alway has been. There is no debate on that. However:
-Breaking water into it's components requires energy.
-The same amount of energy you then get out when you recombine those components: Hydrogen and Oxygen.
There is no net gain. NONE.
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However, there is a subtler point that can be taken advantage of:
Sustainable energy like wind and solar can be used to produce Hydrogen which could then power cars. This is similar to using Solar and Wind to create electricity which can then be used to charge chemical batteries which then power the vehicle.
If chemical batteries and electric motors turn out to be heavier (or less efficient) than Hydrogen, its storage container, and a Hydrogen engin, then a better vehicle can be built from the latter.
It will likely not be an earth shattering difference however.