Solving this Superdelegate Mess
No matter what happens, after the Primaries and Caucuses are done (the last one is the Puerto Rico Primary on June 7th), neither Clinton or Obama are going to be anywhere near the magic number of 2,025 delegates to wrap up the Democratic nomination. For the 79 days (over 11 weeks!) after that, the campaigns will have to switch to a Superdelegate-wooing period, and having to put up with the constant news stories about smoke-filled rooms is something that the Democrats can't afford to go through. Plus McCain will have all this time to organize, fund raise, and otherwise sit back and enjoy the Strum und Drang.
This whole Superdelegate thing should not be the deciding factor. I have started an online petition to ask that Governor Dean lead an effort to amend the Convention rules to guarantee that the winner of a majority of Pledged Delegates (the ones awarded through Primaries and Caucuses) will have sufficient bound Superdelegate votes to guarantee the nomination.
Here is the link -
Please, forward this to your Democratic friends and ask them to help in this grassroots effort to keep this nomination in the hands of the people voting and not with the Superdelegates.
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Florida and Michigan
The DNC had better stand up and be counted. Solve this mess!!! We cannot afford to lose votes in either State no matter what anyone says. We cannot afford to disenfranchize voters who want Hillary as the nominee. I am a Hillary supporter and if BO gets the nomination because of this fiasco, I will not vote nor will I ever contribute to the Democractic Party again! I am not alone. DO SOMETHING QUICK.
Why is the Democratic Party out "there"...
...as opposed to in YOU?
Why are YOU not trying to gain consensus even as OTHERS blow it (in your opinion)?
---
I understand the frustration, however we don't have an alternative to individual continued vigilance at building a movement.
We are doing something
Winning. We are gonna win, with large enough digits to stop this madness.
I had thought the three of them Edwards Obama Biden and Clinton, would have been the fantastic four, but nooooooooooo......
Billary has to air AA dirty laundry, latin american (puerto rico) laundry, and how do ya'll say it? "Obama cultism" From the: He's a muslim fear tactic e-mails, weak on pro-choice rumors in NH hours before the primary, lies about Canada/NAFTAgate, Bob Johnsons innuendo of being a crack dealer, Slumlordgate, unpatriotic, he's a racist, I just sit back and write my book on all the dirt, as I'm sure the rest of the world is looking at some candidates as egotistical power hungry warmongers and spoiled children.
I know America is young, but it's time to grow up, not just wake up. We have worked side by side, faught side by side and died side by side for 400 years. It's time. We Americans gave ourselves a great candidate for election of President. He is respectful, intelligient , got straight A's, not C-. He has the common sense to diplomatically resolve problems not bully like Bush. His name is Barack Obama.
mommapanther
Don't threaten to not support the nominee if your canidate loses
Dude, like look at the Supreme Court. Several of the oldest ones are also the leftmost ones, and if they die/step down in a McCain administration, the court will go to the right for the rest of our lifetime, and all of us will regret you making good on your threat.
Personally, I have studied the Gallup information, and the Canidates, and while I think Obama to be a superior leader and one who inspires, I think Hillary has a better chance of winning - a 51 Electoral college vote advantage through swing states.
The truth is that no one will cross the line without some superdelegates. So Superdelegates- all of you get in a room and make a decision ASAP.
BTW, I heard today that the DNC awards delgates to states first based on population, then additionally for consistently voting democratic. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's stupid, IMHO. Award the extra delegates to SWING STATES. Do you want to nominate the most "Democrat-ic" canidate, or the one that has a better shot at winning?
Let's stop the hysteria just for a moment!
"We cannot afford to disenfranchize voters who want Hillary as the nominee"
First, that's a disingenuous statement - I'm sure you understand that BOTH MI and FL fully supported going ahead of the DNC primary calendar, and the DNC told them over and over that they would face the loss of ALL delegates as a result. Voters IN BOTH STATES went to the polls fully aware that their votes would only count in a "Beauty Pageant" manner with NO DELEGATES AWARDED.
What part of "NO DELEGATES AWARDED" don't you understand?
And for anyone to threaten not to vote for the Party nominee as a result of this bone-headed decision by the state Democrats in FL and MI tells me that the poster is not actually a Democrat. Sorry, I don't want to sound insulting, perhaps I'll just refer to you as a DINO.
So anyway, those voters were not disenfranchised. They knew exactly what their votes meant.
Deal with it!
PS - What does this whole side argument have to do with the OP? Nothing that relates to MI or FL will do anything to alleviate the 11-week donnybrook that the Clinton campaign seems hell-bent to follow.
This is what will kill us.
I never got a choice as to when our primary was run. I only got to choose whether to vote or not. Seems to me that people inspired enough to take time out vote in what was merely a "beauty pageant" might be the kind of people the Party would like to keep on board.
Well, apparently halfway on board. That's gets me halfway to the polling place.
If that means you think I'm "not actually a Democrat", just remember what made me that way.
Win at all costs hardly seems like a change.
Halfway delusional is still delusional - Wake up!
What are you talking about? Pardon me while I wax sarcastic -
You would rather vote for Bush's third term?
You would rather vote for a neocon Supreme Court for the next 40 years?
You would rather vote for continued government wiretapping, corporate immunity, and endless scandals for the next four years?
Yo, disgruntled Hillary voter - if your vote in a Beauty Contest, which means nothing is decided by it, still gets Florida's delegates seated at half-strength, then that is infinitely more than not having any vote at all. BTW Mr. Harold Ickes was the mastermind behind the 0% seating, the same Harold Ickes (and Clinton campaign co-chair) that called yesterday for this to go to Denver.
How politically expedient for him (and the all-but-dead campaign of your hero).
Get over it, we have an election to win in November. Voting for McSame? Sorry to break the news to you, but he ain't the Democrat.
Sarcasm, insults, and assumptions will get you far.
You've made a fine example of what I'm talking about. Attitudes like yours have taken us from "Count every vote!" to "Guess how much your vote counts?" to "We'll decide how much of the vote to count".
The irony is almost too thick.
And of course I'd love to march shoulder to shoulder with people who consider me delusional and tell me to shut up and take it. Congratulations on your masterful campaign skills, and best of luck with that approach.
Just remember not to count on me any more than you count me.
Somebody didn't like my reply, so,
I'll shorten it up a bit.
Re: "Get over it, we have an election to win in November."
What do you mean "we"? It's been made quite clear to me that I'm not wanted.
You may have one to win, I thnk I'll just watch this one.
Are you a wimp?
-Go ahead and F@@@ over the troops.
-Go ahead and F@@@ over the vast majority who provide the labor and innovation in this Nation, and NOW command an ever shrinking percentage of National Income.
-Go ahead and kiss ass kisser McSame's ass.
-etc.
I get your he-man overtones, and there is always somebody tougher than the next guy, so if you can kick my ass, then you have my respect in that one arena. You've got none however, in every other category, IF (I'd like to see this as a big if) your feelings have been hurt and now you're giving a big FU to the rest of the Nation by pouting and sitting this one out.
--------------------------
Care to answer a question?
IF I VOTE USING A STICK IN THE MUD BEHIND AN OLD OAK TREE SHOULD THE OTHER TENS OF MILLIONS OF FOLKS HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT AS VALID?
(And I'm speaking here of a PRIMARY not an election).
See where I'm going with this?
Even if you offer a fantastic counterargument, there is none NONE NONE for screwing over your family, neighbors, and country.
Or am I wrong?
Intertesting...
"I get your he-man overtones, and there is always somebody tougher than the next guy, so if (BIG IF) you can kick my ass, then you have my respect in that one arena. You've got none however in every other category, if (I'd like to see this as a big if) your feelings have been hurt and now you're giving a big FU to the rest of the Nation by pouting and sitting this one out."
Uh, speaaking of delusional... let's just make it clear that I couldn't even kick my own ass. Feel safer now?
On to your other "points":
Obabma's just about got things sewn up, there is no reason he couldn't have gone before the rules commitee and said, "Let's seat everybody". It might have gone a long way toward creating the unity that will be required for him to have a successful administration, let alone win a general election.
Even if the rules commitee had ruled differently, he would have set himself above and apart, moved away from the old politics, been the change he wants to bring. His campaign screwed the pooch, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling.
Politics is all about appeal. If you don't get that, can't help you. Count on me as much as you count me. I'm not obligated to anything but my conscience.
And you dude, need to try the decaf.
And laudenum. :P
Sure.
1-Um, you offered no other interpretation for your comment.......But OK.
2-You offered an argument -among the many others offered by tens of millions of other folks who disagree- about what one guy -Obama- should have done. Great as far as that goes.
3-I get that your entire perspective comes from what others can do for you. That is fundamental and it can't be countered by further analysis.
--------------------------------------------------------
As far as your other insults to me...OK (By the way, adding little faces and barely holding back, does not elevate them, it simply makes them passive aggressive.)
The insults would certainly make sense if there was nothing much going on in the USA over the last 8 years to get upset about.
By the way, you did not answer almost any of the questions put to you.
"Politics is about appeal." YEAH, for the character flawed.
I disagree on the "Politics is about appeal" comment, if applied too broadly.
-Sure, appeal helps to bring in the ignorant and the character flawed. It can even motivate descent folks to go the extra mile. We are all human. During times of smooth sailing it can even make deeper inroads into this same group.
-It does not help with those who are concerned with, for example, the troops being left to languish in STOP LOSS because those who fanned the flames of war are NOT enlisting. This is causing infinite misery. Try googling for pictures. (I assure you the pictures do more than intellectual sparing can). For these folks, Obama or Hillary could do them any injustice and they would still not waiver from voting in a way that would best aid the troops (as the running example).
So, in my response to you, I chose to consider you a man of character and speak about real concerns. I could have instead insulted you, by attempting to be appealing. By soothing your wounds. By offering you what YOU need rather than what ripped apart soldiers and civilians need.
Hamshoe: By the way...
...maybe someone did you a favor by unpublishing your implicit online threat.
Think about it.
Anyway, your post is back.
Jim
Threat?
Holy cow... either you've got me confused with someone else or I'm honestly at a loss.
What did I say that was even slightly threatening?
Jeebus :D
Read your restored post.
I guess it depends on one's interpretation of the phrase "take it" and the context of wishing to have that person within physical reach.
More than one person interpreted it that way, but of course, this ain't no science so...
By the way, if you meant it as a pissed off weak faux threat at other pain-in-the-ass people, I have no problem with it except that it came too early on this blog -before folks had a chance to interpret it in the context of many other posts.
-----------------------
Anywho, let's move on.
If you can -and I know its tough- please consider thinking about what YOU can do to keep other folks, who are pissed at "YOU", from becoming disenchanted with politics and dropping out.
I assure you, one's entire perspective changes when you start thinking about building something up rather than looking towards something to join.
Jim
Whoa...
Seriously?
The phrase was "And of course I'd love to march shoulder to shoulder with people who consider me delusional and tell me to shut up and take it. Congratulations on your masterful campaign skills, and best of luck with that approach."
In response to being called delusional and told to get over it, and help win the election.
Maybe I needed a /sarcasm flag?
Either that...
...or you needed to post more before dropping that line.
For perspective, you might try reading the same kind of posts, that DO escalate into insanely threatening ones, among many other websites.
Ok
Maybe I misjudged the expected hostility level here. :)
My beef is honestly with the process, not the personalities. But politics is local... to the extreme. It's how the individuals react that is what tells in the end, and I still think the Obama campaign missed a really good chance to be magnanimous and unifying.
And without a serious amount of that we ARE looking at McCain for the next 4 years.
Ok Ok
Point by point:
-You're convinced that wishing-for-physical-proximity posts don't often escalate: (e.g. "SAY THAT TO MY FACE"). Ok, but I disagree.
-I might agree. Also, if your argument was about Obama this would be a different conversation. Perhaps without being aware of it you made a FAR broader argument that implied a "me first" attitude: Dems did me wrong so regardless of the outcome I'm only half in.
I apologize for making you own your own argument. No sarcasm here. It takes time for any of us to digest an indignity, and I know you feel you have just experienced one with the half vote.
-I agree on some particulars, but also see merit on both sides. Regardless however, I was speaking to the broader issue you attempted to advance.
WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, FOR ME TO STAY IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
-Should we all list what other Democrats must do or not do, in order for us to stay in the Democratic Party?
OR
Should we all freely admit that other Democrats can be a pain in the ass (myself included) but there is no alternative in life to eating your bowl of shit and moving on to fight:
-inane military policy that lost us Bin Laden's head.
-$5 a gallon gas.
-Historic Surplus turned into Historic Deficit.
-Etc.
Yep..
"...there is no alternative in life to eating your bowl of shit and moving on to fight:"
that's true.
And most people will, even if it's just out of habit.
But if I'm going to be eating shit, I'd rather do it in pleasant company, or at least company that's willing to pretend they're glad I'm in it too. Maybe a little acknowledgment,
"Hey, that's a big bowl of shit. Let's try to find you a chair"
instead of, "You're delusional. Now shut up and do as you're told"
It's the same mistake the campaign made, in my opinion.
lol!
Nicely said ;)
WELCOME TO THE SITE!
(By the way, it was a new member who you first took offense to, so the site could not have avoided the conflict).
You know what hamshoe, Jim
You know what hamshoe, Jim and Dem in SD have attempted to reason with you, but you insist on making this off-topic issue all about you.
Where did you get the idea that this election is less important than your perceived insult by the DNC? You, and those with your mindset, remind me of children who can't have their way. You threaten to vote Republican, or not at all, just to get your indignant peeve on.
Your Democratic vote is indeed wanted in the General Election, but if you believe that you can promote your own agenda by sulking and whining, then by all means make good on your threats, and switch Parties.
You've taken up way too much bandwidth, and other people's time, throwing your pathetic little tantrum on this forum, the topic of which has absolutely nothing to do with your whiny complaints.
super delegates
THE NATIONAL PARTY OFFICERS NEED TO APPROACH THE SUPER DELEGATES BEHIND THE SCENES TO BRING THE SITUATION TO AN END AFTER THE PENNSYLVANIA PRIMARY. tHESE SUPER DELEGATES SHOULD CHOSE THEIR POSITION AS SOON AS THEIR HOME STATE HAS HAD IT'S PRIMARY VOTES COUNTED.
Caps lock
=Screaming on the board
- please don't.
Thank you.
Disagree. Nothing should be
Disagree. Nothing should be done "behind the scenes". Do it out honestly and openly so we all know EXACTLY what's going on. We've had enough of the smoke filled rooms with the powerful making the decision for us while we just hope they make the right ones.
;) TO ALL DEMOCRATS ;)
While we duke it out, let's remember who the real enemy is ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE&feature=related
Because they voted early,
Because they voted early, only the front half of the people of the Judea People's Front will be allowed to stone the back half of the people of the People's Front of Judea.
Star Trek episode: Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
The two are locked in mortal combat even when they discover everyone on their planet is dead.
Why such animosity?
One is half black on the Left side. The other half black on the Right.