the problem of illegal immigration.

It's quite complex, with some families having lived, worked and paid
taxes in the US for generations.

My biggest beef is with the inaction of the Mexican government
to provide more jobs with livable wages for their people.
That, IMHO, is the biggest reason why we have the wave of immigrants
illegally crossing the border. " No trabajo"=no way to stay.

As far as the terminology is concerned, there is something dehumanizing with
calling a person " an illegal", IMHO.
" Undocumented" is both correct and more humanitarian.

I lived for many years in California, where this issue came to the fore during the first term of Governor Pete Wilson, who presided over state proposition 187. That ballot measure, which won easy passage by a frustrated electorate, presumed to address in piecemeal fashion on the state level something that the federal government refused to touch with a pole for a multitude of reasons, all "political" in the worst sense of the word. I will not discuss the pros and cons of 187 except to say that it was essentially flawed from the beginning and amounted to pandering at its most cynical, as the issue of immigration is a federal one by definition and can only be resolved on the federal level.

The one generalization I will make re this complex matter is that I have never heard anything except the partial truth, with an equal measure of disenguenuity, from any elected representative, Democrat of Republican. Democratic candidates are generally loathe to say a bad thing about immigration, illegal or otherwise, as they expect the broad Hispanic base to vote Democratic. Corporatists (once overwhelmingly Republican but now less so) love illegal immigrants for the obvious reason: they are reduced to working in conditions where there are no minimum wage laws, no medical insurance, no holidays, no vacations, or OSHA to worry about either. When they get sick they go to the ER of the local public hospital, the same place they go to deliver their babies. This scenario especially applies to the most unskilled and uneducated, who often work in the agricultural sector or in meat packing plants.

Not all illegal workers have it so bad, however. Many of the more skilled, though still illegal, work in decent blue collar fields, as car mechanics, painters, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, fry cooks and sous chefs -- many of these are fields which were formerly protected by labor unions. But what happened to the unions, once the backbone of the Democratic Party? Perhaps corruption on the part of the bosses and 30 years of villification and union busting ala Reaganism took its toll. A number of Californians I know (natives) who formerly worked in these fields changed vocations when they could no longer afford to own a home due to the downward pressure on wages brought about by the glut of immigrants.

And this is not just a problem concerning too many illegal workers but also legal workers who come from countries where a guaranteed $10 per hour looks like a fortune. How does a labor union maintain a credible strike when you have a continuous stream of strike-breakers crossing picket lines?

"Free Trade" bills like NAFTA and GATT allowed the free exportation of jobs offshore. But with porous borders and lax enforcement, who needs to move their business offshore? Any apologist who claims that sustained, massive immigration does not depress the standard of living of the the middle class is a liar.

On the other hand, why are they coming in such droves? NAFTA has destroyed the old family farms in Mexico, which could not compete with multinational agribusiness. I recently heard that corn is so expensive now in southern Mexico that tortillas, the lowly staple of the Mexican diet, have to be imported from the US and have nearly assumed the status of a luxury item. So of course these starving people come here. You and I would do the same thing if we were starving.

It is worth pointing out that although "fence jumpers" come here from many parts of the world, this matter overwhelmingly concerns Mexico, based on pure numbers and due to the checkered and bloody history of the US-Mexican border. The government of Mexico, which offers its citizens no social programs to speak of, is complicit in encouraging its numerous displaced citizens to come here, in many cases providing detailed information on where to find hospitals and other social services upon their arrival al norte.

What you will NEVER hear from any politician is the fact that many of those who make the journey feel they are recolonizing that part of Mexico that was "stolen" from it by the US 150 years ago (approximately 1/3 of the land mass of the contiguous 48 states) therefore what they are doing is "legal" from the standpoint of Mexico. (Google the words "reconquista" and "aztlan.") It is not clear what proportion of immigrants from our southern border feel this way, but I have the impression that it is significant.

To me this is one of the more troubling aspects of unchecked illegal immigration from Mexico. If you have a broad mass of the population that refuses to renounce its citizenship in Mexico (dual citizenship was proclaimed legal there by Vicente Fox), what sort of allegiance to this country can be expected? This is not the way it was in days of yore, when people checked their former nationalities at Ellis Island.

I am not suggesting dusting off the old Alien and Sedition act.  However, I do think that this matter of "our" having "stolen Mexican territory" needs to be adjudicated , once and for all, perhaps in the form of debt forgiveness to Mexico, so that it does not continue to provide a historical rationale for Mexico to encourage its citizens to flout our immigration laws.  

I fear this issue can become a real sticky wicket for our

party. 

In addition to the previous posts I would like to throw out

some points for consideration.  Being forewarned is being

forearmed.   As some of you know, I closely monitor TV.

(Since the Majority of Americans get their news from TV

I believe it is most important to see the information they

receive.)

Point One.  It is significant that in the Democratic Party

the War In Iraq is most important issue.  In the GOP,

Immigration is every much as explosive as the Iraq

War is to Democrats.  This tells me the Immigration will

be used by GOP in the election.

Point 2.  Remember Gray Davis(D) was thrown out of

Governorship of California and Schwarzenegger was

put in office on the promise of doing something about

"illegal Immigration". 

Today Bill Schneider, CNN reported a poll which reflects.\

82% Repubs.   80% Independents   62% Democrats

oppose giving driver's licenses to undocumented workers.

 Note the 62% Democrats.  Immigration has hit Middle

America and the apparent lack of control has them

up in arms.

I have picked up on Pundits using the term "illegal

 Immigrants."

The RW Hate Radio periodically use this "Illegal Immigration to stir up the Masses.  Laura Ingraham

RW. Radio Talker has been on TV shows including

C-Span indicating this can be the most effective

issue for the Republicans to use in Election.

In conclusion for now, I do believe our party had best

take a serious look at the Issue--putting ourselves

in the shoes of Middle Class worker and family.

would not allow it. Why aren't we looking after our own self interest? The elite few profit while the rest of us struggle.  There are borders when they set them to their own. Forget if we (or other country citizens) want them

Call them what you want it is bad policy for them and us. Their wages lowered and slavery results from it.  Can people just flee to other countries looking for jobs?  Diseases and crime speading from there to here?.  Whole groups will leave towns, etc. They will become ghost towns? The women without men, etc. like in Ireland years ago?

"The burden and costs of illegal immigration are still distributed unevenly across the country, but states and regions that were virtually immune to the impact of large-scale illegal immigration just a decade ago are now feeling the effects, finds the study. About 60 percent of all illegal immigrants - nearly 8.4 million people - are settled in just six states, California, Texas, New York, Florida, Illinois and New Jersey. Other recent reports by FAIR indicate that the combined costs of K-12 education, health care and incarceration of criminals to those six states exceeds $27 billion annually." Fair.com

Just recently the Mayor of  Chicago is trying to figure out how to pay for their local transit system. The Repblicans are calling the IL governor and the mayor crooks because of the debt problems.

Because of our large, prosperous, educated, middle class and country of laws we were a safe and prosperous country. Since Bush that no longer exists does it?  It's reason for impeachment.

"There are no overnight fixes to a problem that has been growing for years," commented Stein. "But the American public strongly supports an enforcement-first approach that discourages new people from coming illegally and encourages millions who are here to return home. What is clear, is that lack of enforcement and proposed amnesties have only exacerbated the problem." Fair.com

Enforcement of our immigration laws and borders was a huge 2006 election isssue.  We wanted them to solve it without amnesty.  Forget what the voters want eh?  That mandate was from both party bases. Democrats can't be lawless and win the next election. That's realistic.

I too lived in California during the prop 187 debate.  It is fascinating that the democratic party is seemingly ignoring the statistics presented in the forum response...62% dems oppose driver's licenses.  I would like to note that this is a limited poll figure and I do think that percentage may be higher amongst democrats.

As a fan of history, it is interesting to note key events that led up to the "Fall of Rome".  It is a very fascinating account that has eerily similar likeness to what the U.S. is doing and facing currently.  One major event was the collapse of its borders and protection.  

I completely agree that global economics has triggered a dynamic shift in population across borders.  But as nations develop and increase global trade and development, it is critical to reinforce the laws of citizenship. 

Americans do not want amnesty and this issue will seriously influence voting. Democratic leaders are not listening to the majority of their constituency as they  plug ahead with politically deaf ears. A prime example is the Dream Act which provided free college education to illegal students when  we have so many citizens who are sacrificing to send their kids to college or can't afford to send them. 

I can't understand why our politicians do this because it does hurt the American workers. Illegals are working their way up the job scale- they are getting into the trade jobs that provided a decent middle class living for many. This will continue in other jobs as long as their pay undercuts  the American worker. 

Americans understand that we need immigration reform and I believe we can do it if ---

1. it is a comrehensive plan with a phased implementation schedule

2. it BEGINS with  real border and ports security and

Bio Ids for employment and other specified services

i.e. school enrollment

3. there is a data base as good as the ones we are able to develop when they want to collect our money( IRS, SS)

4. citizenship would be possible under the same condition as that other foreign nationals  and,

5. therefore, no need for amnesty.

I'm afraid that the Dems will do as they promised- send the same hurried-up hodge-podged bill  to the Senate in September. I want them to consider that they will probably lose as many votes as the gain if they are lucky. 

To me there should be little debate on this issue.  Illegal is simply that...illegal.  You can focus on the rhetoric of it all or focus on the real issue...people are coming into this country illegally.  I support migrant workers as they are needed, what I do not support is the paying under the table of illegal workers and watching that money flow out of our country.  Its a hard issue and I typically break from the party in how I feel it should be handeled.  The status quo no longer works and its time to get the politics out of it and come up with a viable plan that deals with what I feel is a great problem.